hokey-cokey - the hoddle in-out debate
With a perceived poor start to the 2003-04 season, the debate over whether Spurs should switch the manager rages.
Here are some of the views of our readers ... feel free to add yours.
The top messages are what fans were thinking after the news of Hoddle being sacked broke ...
Having just read Alan
Curbishley's comments on the Sky Sports Website, it struck me that he
clearly wants to be offered the Spurs job. Personally i'd love to
see him in the role. For me he has done wonders at Charlton and I
would prefer him over O'Neill or Souness.
S J Wightman
So he’s gone, and I for one am not sorry !! I wish I could say I was, but I’m not.
down I was never really convinced that he was up to the job, after all
what had he won in all his time as a manager – one FA Cup !!
Sure he got Swindon promoted through the playoffs, but that had more to
do with him playing than managing, Chelsea were still no better than
average when he left them and the least said about his time as England
manager the better!
I was, however, more than prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt, back him as a manager and hope that he could get us back into the top six or eight teams in England. But two and a half years down the line we are still crap. So much for, “getting back to the style Tottenham fans have come to expect down the years”.
So where did it all go wrong ? For me (for starters) I just couldn’t come to terms with the way he treated Sergei Rebrov, I don’t care that he was GG’s buy, he was a f*****g good player when he came to Tottenham and for whatever reason he was frozen out … an £11 million pound player frozen out ? WHY ?? Come on we at least deserved an explanation for that alone. Like we have an abundance of £11 million pound players to muck around. No instead he chose to run with players who had nowhere near as much skill or intelligence around the park (I don’t want to insult ex-players by naming them, but I suspect all of us could name at least three players who should never have been selected ahead of Rebrov). Then came stories of his refusal to talk to certain players for whatever reason – I know the father of one player (an International player no less), who I spoke to at an airport a couple of weeks ago, who told me his son couldn’t wait to leave WHL because of the way Hoddle was treating him – so I don’t believe these stories are just rumours. Can any manager afford to be that infantile, that he can refuse to play, or speak to, an international player in his squad ? … let alone one in charge of Tottenham at present.
So I spent the last few months actually looking forward to the day when the board would realise that under Hoddle we were never going to be the team WE wanted.
this tosh about him being one of us is just b******s … Darren Gough is
one of us, but I wouldn’t have given him the job either.
What is needed is a manager with a proven record in top class football, not the dross that we have had shoved on us this last 8-10 years (GG excepted – and I make no apologies for saying that either!). It’s about time that the vocal majority of Spurs fans extracted their craniums from their anuses and smelt the roses. We are being taken for the proverbial bunch of ***** (*insert your own expletive here) by a board that has the collective morals of a dockyard cat !! Just as long as there are 36,000 bums on seats every two weeks or so they’re as happy as pigs in shit, sure they talk a good fight ... new stadium ... new improved transportation system or we’re off … all total b******s!!
years ago Glasgow Celtic fans were being fed the same old patter but,
canny lads that they are, they saw straight through it and when
they decided they had had enough of the bullshit they took action and
stopped going to home matches attendance’s dropped from around 50,000+
to somewhere in the 16,000 – 18,000 bracket, a couple of home games
like that and the penny soon dropped in the boardroom. How many
Spurs supporters wouldn’t swap the last three years at the Lane for
the last three at Parkhead ?
much longer will it take before pennies start to drop on the terraces of
Can I just say a big thank - you to all the Tottenham fans who sang Glenda's song last night up at Coventry. I'm sure he was watching and he must have taken something from that.
It feels like a death in the family. Hoddle was one of us. Not an outsider like GG. That is why even though we knew deep down that it would end this way, we all hoped it wouldn't.
But it has and now the next sap will come into the job for two and a half years and get kicked out, leaving the fans as the only constant in this equation.
Will it be the formula for success ?? Let us hope that Levy makes it correct by getting the mix right.
As fans, all we can do is sit and wait.
So much for having our Tottenham back !!
On Sunday night at almost ten o'clock I turned the TV to Sky Sports News to hear the end of hour round up, "and after the break more on the Hoddle situation." Immediately I presumed he had either been sacked or made a defiant statement.
Bang on Ten O'clock I heard the announcement I had expected. On hearing this my heart sank. I feel if this had been any other manager except Hoddle I think I would have been pleased that the board had acted decisively to bring to an end a demise that had started with a 4-0 mauling versus again the Saints. The fact the man sacked was truly a genius who would grace the Legends Bar in the East Stand, perhaps more fittingly than any other, was the one sacked is why it almost hurt to hear him sacked.
I understand and feel the board had just reasons for sacking Glenn, I
think they have stopped him having a go with a team he could finally say
was his, and given time to get everyone together I feel could have
challenged towards the top of the league.
Richard, putting his hat in the ring for the job.
Never heard so much bull### in my life over Glenn getting the big E.
Sublime player mediocre coach some people cant separate the two careers.
Methinks a few of the players made certain Glenn's era finished by staying in the dressing room on Saturday.
Is it my senility or has Ledley gone backwards since GG left.
Either of the two geezers currently plying their trade up in Glasgow would fit the bill, not to excited by anyone else especially Pleaty's mate.
Another Saturday evening
with not unexpected blues.
I think everyone else has
said most of what I wanted to say, but just to add a couple of
The day the romance died.
I suppose the one thing that I am surprised about is that I am not surprised. Six months ago, my belief in Glenn was unquestioned. Then a poor end to the season coupled with an appalling start to this has left a feeling if only in my heart
Before I go any further let me say that the performances and results were unacceptable and the boil has been lanced and lanced quickly. As much as I did not want this, maybe it was not to be for Glenn.
Some time ago, I penned a response to Matthew Lyons piece entitled on the web site as a Messiah response, in which I laid out the way that I thought we were going.
Most of the points that I put, which were no means rocket science happened. The moving of the old guard with fresh new and young talent being brought to the club signalled a move forward. I think we would all agree with that.
Hoddle the player was how we wanted Tottenham to play, skill, grace and winning. Unfortunately, my boyhood fantasy has not been realised.
It was romantic to have Hoddle back (the timing was always questionable, and did start the feud with the SCBC).
These were the general points I made.
However, football and Spurs are never easy and as much as the majority of us would have always backed Glenn while he was at the club sung his name and got behind the team, perhaps the time had come.
There were questions over his continued playing of certain players clearly unfit or out of form with a system not working and move around too often at too many times. Leaving player's not knowing positions and jobs.
Keller, who has been poor since the Arsenal game. Steve Carr is not the same player since coming back from injury and his commitment to us is being questioned after almost every game. There is the view that he is playing out his contract so he can move on himself up the Seven Sisters road.
The lack of a ball winning midfield player is also apparent. If there is no one of the quality that we want fine, then do not waste money on someone not better than what we have, but we all know our midfield is to week.
Perhaps the answer was to play Ledley there until January to give the back line some protection. Also, a back three is fine when it works, it did not work well enough often enough and we are shipping goals. A back four with defenders that can defend please.
Having noted some of the faults, I still wanted us to be successful with Glenn, for Glenn, for all of us. I wanted the returning hero to come to turn us into the team we all want in the style we want. That romance and Glory of Spurs fans.
Perhaps romance died a little on Sunday. I feel for Glenn immensely; I feel for me.
Some people in my family did not even sleep Sunday night (funny old game) from the anxiety and shock of it, but it was not shock but just a part of their heart breaking. Mine has a little too.
However, I realise we must move on.
Come on you Spurs.
I think to sack any manager six games into a season is a huge mistake by any club let alone one with the traditions of T.H.F.C. What message does this send out to any prospective new manager, if they can treat one of their favourite sons like this what chance any one else.
Now was the time for the board to hold its head not panic and take the easy option, shame on you Mr. Levy.
It's sad to see Glenn go,
but could we really risk the results carrying on in the manner we have
seen since Christmas last year!
When I grew up on a West London Council Estate, there was Spurs and music.
Spurs were the team; names like Jimmy Greaves who came back for Pat Jennings' testimonial, 30,000 crowd, 3-2 to Spurs, 2 to Greavesie. Stevie Perryman, (ex-Elliot's Green) played everywhere to suit his club (if you ever saw him in midfield you'd remember). Glenn Hoddle - Magician; him and Brooking very similar.
Anyway Glenn thanks for everything. The shirt used to mean so much, the boyhood dreams of playing for the lilywhites. Then coaches, the Liverpool robots Wonder what went through Terry Neill's mind when he took Patrick to Arsenal.
You were great Glenn and the other immortals, its changed now and it must be hard to motivate a team of mercenaries with no heart and no passion that never supported in all weather on public transport going back to shit town.
Remember the days "We are the Tottenham and we are the best, We are the Tottenham, so xxxx all the rest".
Pass it on to other true supporters and don't doubt the commitment of Glenn. Ask the players of today, they have shaky hands when they take their pay.
It is tinged with great sadness to hear of the sacking of Spurs legend Glenn Hoddle but the writing was on the wall with the unacceptable results of this season and the tale end of last. We are at the moment the laughing stock of English football and this must end NOW !!! Too many managers in too few years is damning to a club of our stature, this time we must get it right. We need someone who can gel all these players into a team.
How is it that teams like Manchester City and Blackburn Rovers can be relegated and a few seasons later have teams far superior to ours winning games home and away and making it to the holy grail of European football. Even our conquers on Saturday have built a side, without breaking the bank, that can match any in the country home or away on there day. This should be us.
Is there something
drastically wrong with the Club we all love so dearly, if so, now is the
time to sort it out. We need some stability, the players and fans alike
must now all pull in the same direction, lets start by putting in a good
performance against Coventry.
What annoys me is that Glenn finally gets a team resembling what he wants and gets six games to win the league with them.
Notice the media aren't getting Bobby Robson the sack.
And so another legend is
relieved of his job and the debate, as ever, was did he have enough time
or was he not good enough?
I hate to say it but ENIC
have done the right thing by sacking Glenn Hoddle.
Southampton were perfect
for him. A dead-end club going nowhere, with no expectations other
than to survive the annual relegation battle with Coventry.
Hod probably knew that he still wasn't ready but that he'd never get another chance. It was a big mistake. I said in April 2001 that David Pleat should've gotten the job full-time and I still believe that he's the right man. I'm well chuffed that he's back in charge and I just hope that he gets a chance to show Levy what a fine manager he is.
Maybe we wont have to
poach Redknapp from Pompey or O'Neill from Celtic.
He would come cheaper than Redknapp Snr., because we'd have to pay up his contract and O'Neill would be expensive too.
The future looks good for
Spurs and I'm no longer downcast about it. All we're missing are 2
midfield enforcers and a leftie to cover for Ziege. Burch can take over
from Keller in goal and Mabizela should be in for the appalling
S J Wightman
Where do we go from here? I was back at the shop on an all too rare visit on Wednesday and blagged some signed stuff from Glenn, Anthony Gardener and Stephen Carr. Came away with a really good vibe - so disappointed today. The same sense as when Ossie left, two gifted and adored players who could not recreate the style and class displayed by the Spurs team they both graced.
A shame, but the story is similar; 104 games under Glenn's stewardship with forty odd both won and lost will not take the club into a top six finish which I believe is most fans minimum credible expectation of progress for this season. Sadly, I believe his poor relationship with the press will see him look abroad for job offers.
The future? Despite the previous continental experiment that Grossed out, I think the board should recruit a proven top level coach from abroad, free from any UK press baggage & b.s. to get in the way of the job. The modern game is ruthlessly results driven - I want the job contracted out to a proven competent person with a flair for the passing game uncluttered by any personal hero worship.
Alas, you don't get a General for Corporals wages, which is why I think the board will try for Graeme Souness (happy and tightly contracted), Alan Curbishley (who would be at West Ham if he wanted to move) and may well end up with Harry Redknapp who like GG, dabbled too much with smoke and mirrors in the transfer market for my liking.
Ian, Bielefeld Germany
Well I hope the bloody media are satisfied. They've got what they've been after for the last year at least, and Glenda has gone. I am very disappointed in the board who have clearly allowed themselves to be influenced by external sources, including former players (all of whom are on considerably lower wages now because once Hoddle got rid of them no comparable club was interested - bitter, them?)
But for whatever reason the decision has been made and we will now presumably bring in another decent manager who will state he needs five years to get the club going the right way, then have a bad run after two years and get sacked, with the media leaving his reputation in tatters. Watch the queue for application forms at the Lane - yep, that's it, the 90 year old in the mac and no-one else. They're now going to have to pay big money to get a good man, with the promise of more money to spend, which leads on to the Leeds situation unless people are very careful. To avoid this happening we cannot go for the likes of McLeish or O'Neill who are too used to spending cash. Curbs would be the best bet but he'd be daft to leave Charlton. There are other good managers around but they're all happy where they are. I reckon we will end up with Glenn Roeder...
Oh, and well done Mr. Levy, as if we'd have wanted Abramovich's money.
Why do I feel sad that Glenn has gone? I believe that he did (and does) love the club, in a genuine sense, but was he in love with his past? I don't know. I have no history with Tottenham, and, despite my middle age, have only been connected with the club as a member, and more recently, as an employee for a few seasons. I share with all yids (my brothers) a sense of personal humiliation and insult at home defeats by noddy clubs. On Saturday I interviewed (informally) several Southampton supporters in my cosy position in south upper and was offended by their confidence of a win. I mourn the loss of Steffen Freund (shoooooooot), Teddy Sheringham and, for pure squandering of funds, Sergei Rebrov. Glenn made a big mistake, he went back to the club he loved. Never go back.
What do I want from The Tottenham? Away wins. When did we last nick three away goals (other than against City last Christmas)? I don't give a damn about the past, legends and 'when the year ends in one', That's all bollocks. I just want us to be like other clubs, only better.
And one more thing? Why don't we join in with "Glory Glory Tottenham Hotspur" ? The Hammers sing "Bubbles", but no one joins in with "Glory, Glory" (except me, and usually down my mobile phone!).
Come on you Spurs! We are the Paxton Tottenham! Up the Yid Army!
I read with sadness the (although not unexpected) news about Glenn. There are those among us who should be ashamed of not supporting our manager and our team. We all hear the 'fans' moaning about the whinging players, well what about the whinging 'fans'? People who don't believe in giving the team total support have no place at the Lane and no right in calling themselves Spurs fans.
I hope Glenn will understand that there are those among us who feel he should have been the given the time he needed. He had only just been able to build a team of his choosing and should have been given the 5 years promised in the press conference which first announced he would be our manager.
Once again our board have proven themselves to totally gutless and listened to the ravings of the press and a minority of 'fans'!!
GOOD LUCK GLENN I WISH YOU ALL THE BEST FOR THE FUTURE. I KNOW I'LL MISS YOU AT THE LANE!!
Before the sacking, this is what people were saying ...
The time has come for the Tottenham board to replace Glenn
Cast your memory back to February March 2001!
Spurs unbeaten in the Premiership at home. A 3-2 win in the FA Cup quarter final against West Ham away. Remember Rebrov's volleyed goal against them. Spurs then moving menacingly into the FA Cup Semi-Final! At last Spurs were making progress with a determined, motivated, young side that pressed the opposition, crossed the ball early and trouble the big teams at White Hart Lane.
What happened next?
Spurs sacked the Manager and appointed Glenn Hoddle!
Brian a Spurs supporter since 1966
I ask people to cast their minds back a few years - to a game against Wimbledon at home that ended 0-0, with roughly no shots on goal all game. That is what Gerry Francis gave us.
I ask people to think back to the terrifying humiliation we all faced with the appointment and lasting tenure of the corrupt gunner George Graham.
And I ask you to cast your mind back just a few weeks ago to the Leeds game.
As a Spurs fan I ask for little - not consistency, we are years from that. - not league domination, our football should not suit it. - not even to be able to beat second rate sides week in week out, which we have not done well since the early 80’s.
I ask for glorious football that leaves people staring in wonder and awe. - I ask for progress towards some of those heights that a club of our resource should attain. - and I ask for players that fill my heart with pride.
Hoddle has had two years in which to build a side, a task he estimated would take five, (being more demanding than Alex Ferguson who took seven). In the first set of signings he gave us our Tottenham back. Poyet, Sheringham and Zeige were never long term prospects, but they served a purposed, and that was to fill our hearts with pride at being Spurs, and to stave off the worst of relegation fears.
Following this he bough us Deano. Not the greatest defender of all time, and prone to mistakes, but a solid and capable player in the air who gives experience to a partnership of Gardner and King, that will now serve us for years.
Then came Keane - a glorious player in the spurs mould - he has a fighting spirit similar to his man u namesake, and talent in abundance. He excites the crowd, he scares oppositions, he lifts our team. And sadly he has been missing this season.
The new clutch of signings are yet to have served long enough to be rated. Though four goals six games in for Kanoute bodes well.
We have a long way to go - we are far from being the side we should be - but we are heading in the right direction - slowly the talent is accumulating and the whining dross disposed of. Gradually the side is showing itself capable of varied formations and strategies. And on rare occasions we do the things that make Spurs different to other teams, the glorious football with an honest spirit that the English game needs. For now it is rare. That is better than it was under our previous mis-managers, and it must come more often.
But it is progress. And people should start to acknowledge that Hoddle started from a lower base than the Spurs left by Terry Neil, who, though relegated, still had much of what Sir Bill had given them to draw on.
I'll make this short and sweet ....
To all you whingeing old gits who want our manager sacked 5 games into the new season, I say this:
Get off Hoddle's back and support your bloody team!!!
Right, first things first. Hoddle must stay. He is a very good manager. OK, things have taken a bit longer at the Lane than at Swindon or Chelsea, but he is the man for the job. He was praised at both those clubs and with England, it was nothing to do with on-field things that he was sacked. We are still in transition, and this early in the season you cannot judge people like Postiga. I mean the guy is what, 20 if that. You try moving to a foreign country at that age, I'm sure it's not easy, let alone then having to play in a foreign style and be an instant saviour.
We now have a young-ish squad which has a hell of a lot of potential, and Hoddle must be allowed to work with that. Anyone expecting European football within three years when he took over must have been expecting more luck than we know we get!!
Where were Man Utd when Alex Ferguson had been in charge for three years? Nowhere. They were still a year away from being dicked 5-1 in the Manc derby. Man Utd, much as I hate to say it, are the perfect example in giving a proven manager a decent length of time in the job and waiting for it to come good. No-one has done it since. I say that if we stick with Glenn for the next two years without questioning him, we could be in for a decent spell of success. But we all know that won't happen, and if he's out of a job soon then we will all be clamouring for a so-called top manager, and barring Martin O'Neill I can't see any chance of us getting one even on a par with Glenn.
So stick with it, fellow fans, he is the man for the job, and if we show we believe that it may just increase the speed of the revival ...
Having discovered the Hoddle Out website I now feel that it is time to join this debate fully. I feel totally and utterly disillusioned by what is happening at the Lane. A supporter for what has seemed like an eternity, I was a great supporter of Glenn and all he did through his steps into management. I took lots of flak over my constant support during the England campaign followed by his sacking after those alleged words to a certain newspaper. To abject delight when he came back to management to euphoria when he arrived at The Lane. I will admit to feeling sorry for George Graham, because at the end of the day he is and probably always will be a world class manager. But with the arrival of Glenn, I was swept up in the rejoicing, and forgot Hoddle’s record as and manger so far. But to be honest, I am disappointed. We are hopeless. His lack of management skills has come out and we are suffering.
Tottenham fans always talk about the ‘Tottenham way’, but to be honest we have been a 2nd class side for nearly 20 years. OK, we have won the FA Cup in that time, but so have Wimbledon. We have sacked the two managers who have brought us any form of cup success. It is time we forgot about the past. Danny Blanchflower no longer plays for us, Jimmy Greaves will not be knocking them in against the likes of Southampton or Man U. Glenn Hoddle isn’t the Messiah, he is a false prophet, a fallen angel. If he quit he would leave with his playing reputation intact and we can still remember his skills on the ball, if he stays and we wait until Xmas, he will be tarnished and what is to stop us slipping like Sunderland or West Ham.
We must now look to the future and start a brand new ‘Tottenham Way’ or we risk playing the likes of Rotherham on a cold December evening, battling it out for 1st division pride.
Hoddle must go, Forget the past, Live the future.
It seems that there a still a lot of fans behind Hoddle ... or at least willing to give him until Christmas. This is probably through lack of better alternatives and his long association with the club.
Could we organise a pro-Hoddle demo after the Southampton game to show everyone outside the club that we are still united!!!
Don't sack Hoddle! what do you think
you're doing...what's going on - everything's going mad !
Come on you Spurs,
PS Why the f**k is Gardner anywhere near the first team?
I saw this and thought it might be of interest
I believe that Hoddle's time is almost
over but there is a decent alternative already at the club. I was
surprised that ENIC didn't give the job to David Pleat, who is a far
superior manager to Hoddle.
As a Spurs supporter of nearly 40 years, I am disgusted at the state of the so-called team that Hoddle (the nearly man) has assembled. I do honestly feel that the team was much better and harder to beat under George Graham and that the present board have made a very big mistake in employing Hoddle as team manager. I don't think we will ever do anything under his management.
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